RM4 prepurchase questions

[Julia]

I'm now wishing I'd gotten the 12 space rack instead of the 8. I could get one of those patch bays and be done with it.

Lynch Box and 6505+ (the latter for certain) and the former if this thing pans out the way I want. Bear in mind this is for studio recording and not for live gigging. I use my Fender amp for that.

I was thinking to myself. "Okay you just found the most favorite lead tone of yours ever with your SG's neck pickup through the SL+ and now you're thinking of changing it?" Rhythm tone? I'm using the KH-1 and my Fender (clean). Yeah, I know it's a slippery slope. I'm headed toward hollowbody or semi-hollowbody soon. :lol:

So... I've already got 7 modules of which I use 3 to 4, but don't want to sell off any because I might want that tone at sometime. I just need a Super V and I've got all the major amps covered.

I've got 3 rack slots left. So I'm looking once again at the RM4. I'm looking at a Rocktron Velocity 300 (150W/ch) SS power amp (one rack slot). The Rocktron is supposed to model power tube sag via the "reactance" knob, and seems to be much more suited to guitar than say a PA amp. This will be used for recording and for home practice, so all I'm worried about is headroom and I don't think I'm using more than 10 watts through my 412 as it is simply because anymore would be way too loud.

What I need to know about the RM4 is:

* is the post loop out stereo? I'll be running serial loop since I use a dbx 166xl as first stop in the loop. What about use for mono?

* I guess you guys also use the post loop out for DI to an interface? (here's where the patch bay would have been great) I suppose I could just get a four slot rack for the RM4 + Power amp + Power Conditioner (I'll need another one anyway -- I'm running out of outlets), which would allow for a patch bay. This would allow DI without running the amp.

However, since I need to hear what I'm playing in addition to what's already played, and don't want to deal with latency I'll need that power amp anyway. Probably will have to run a load box (like a hot plate set to NO attenuation) for the line out, and run the speaker cables from there to the speakers for DI.

Is this what I'll need to use the RM4?

I can see why some guys use the GSP1101 because it's got the flexibility to do both without a patch bay (XLR outs and 1/4" outs that can be used simultaneously). That's been my attraction to that unit to be honest.

 

[Mister Joshua]

Short answer. No the post loop is not stereo. There is nothing stereo in the RM4. Both loops are mono and there is no stereo signal. You may be thinking of panning, like dividing the modules between the two outs. This is also a no. You can use one of the outs to a DI and one to a power amp with no problem. Both outs are identical signals and can be used simultaneously. Hope this is the answer you seek.

Peace, Joshua

 

[Julia]

..... You can use one of the outs to a DI and one to a power amp with no problem. Both outs are identical signals and can be used simultaneously. Hope this is the answer you seek.

Peace, Joshua

That will work because if I do make a stereo effect I do it in the DAW or using my Lexicon as a VST plugin via the DAW.

It's just that the Rocktron "reactance" imitates the tube sag of a power section so I'd probably want to go from the load box anyway. I heard about this thing on the Axe FX forum for live guitar use. And it's only one rack space.

Thanks.

 

[SacredGroove]

What I need to know about the RM4 is:

* is the post loop out stereo? I'll be running serial loop since I use a dbx 166xl as first stop in the loop. What about use for mono?

* I guess you guys also use the post loop out for DI to an interface? (here's where the patch bay would have been great) I suppose I could just get a four slot rack for the RM4 + Power amp + Power Conditioner (I'll need another one anyway -- I'm running out of outlets), which would allow for a patch bay. This would allow DI without running the amp.

However, since I need to hear what I'm playing in addition to what's already played, and don't want to deal with latency I'll need that power amp anyway. Probably will have to run a load box (like a hot plate set to NO attenuation) for the line out, and run the speaker cables from there to the speakers for DI.

Is this what I'll need to use the RM4?

I can see why some guys use the GSP1101 because it's got the flexibility to do both without a patch bay (XLR outs and 1/4" outs that can be used simultaneously). That's been my attraction to that unit to be honest.

Sorry, I am a little confused.
How many outputs do you want?
What are they?
1 or 2 channels of the DBX?

 

[Julia]

Okay, what I'm looking at is -- will this work?

* I'll use the serial loop (I do time based wet/dry blending in the MFX unit)
* left post loop out to the Rocktron Velocity 300 power amp (bridged mono -> speaker cabs)
* right post loop out to my studio channel and interface (Studio Channel give me a bit more "granular control" over the signal and I find the the tube preamp warms the tone a bit more.

This configuration would allow me to record without blasting down the walls.

This also would allow me to eliminate all my amp heads.

Next question: how hot does the RM4 get? the rack will be crammed.

 

[SacredGroove]

Okay, what I'm looking at is -- will this work?

* I'll use the serial loop (I do time based wet/dry blending in the MFX unit)
* left post loop out to the Rocktron Velocity 300 power amp (bridged mono -> speaker cabs)
* right post loop out to my studio channel and interface (Studio Channel give me a bit more "granular control" over the signal and I find the the tube preamp warms the tone a bit more.

This configuration would allow me to record without blasting down the walls.

This also would allow me to eliminate all my amp heads.

Next question: how hot does the RM4 get? the rack will be crammed.

Yes, that will work. I just thought you were going to have the dbx in there, after the preamp.

My RM4 doesn't get that hot. It has a side-firing exhaust fan too. I had a 14u rack filled and it never got too hot. There were a couple times in the summer it seemed to get hotter than normal, but the house was drawing more current because of the AC units.

Something to think about if you didn't already know: The loops on the RM4 are post-module, so the Loop Sends are no different than the Pre-Loop out. This may or may not alter your thinking on future signal routing. :wink:

 

[Julia]

Yes, that will work. I just thought you were going to have the dbx in there, after the preamp.

My RM4 doesn't get that hot. It has a side-firing exhaust fan too. I had a 14u rack filled and it never got too hot. There were a couple times in the summer it seemed to get hotter than normal, but the house was drawing more current because of the AC units.

Something to think about if you didn't already know: The loops on the RM4 are post-module, so the Loop Sends are no different than the Pre-Loop out. This may or may not alter your thinking on future signal routing. :wink:

Signal Chain would be:

Guitar > RM4 > SL send > dbx 166xl > 31 band EQ > MX300 > SL return

Out L > Amp > Cabs
Out R >Studio Channel > Interface

So apparently there is a third option? > pre loop out > dbx 166xl (ch2) > EQ > Studio Channel > interface? This would be interesting since then I can add effects as plugins.

Also another possibility.... run the Rocktron with the reactance set up a bit for some sag into the Hot Plate (no attenuation) > line out to Studio Channel into Interface, and use the Speaker outs on the HP to the speakers.

If this rig works it'll do it for me for the rest of my life. End of GAS. Well except for that hollowbody and fully functional keyboard.

 

[SacredGroove]

Another option to expand your routing is a line mixer with both pre and post fader aux lines.

I use a Yamaha mv802. It sounds great and gives a lot of options for routing to amps, computers, etc... With the pre-fader aux, I can inject an eq, hush, comp, etc. and not have to worry about readjusting the gain structure for those fx whenever I change the fader level. Which is what you can't do on the RM4.

I have my other fx in "serial" and "parallel", routed to individual mixer channels, so I have total control of those, as well. All of this goes through the 2 stereo outs, but in your case there are other outs available too.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

End of GAS. Well except for ...

lol

 

[GtrGeorge!]

I would be interested if you actually LIKED the sound of a SS power amp when used with your Rm4.
I have tried quite a few and they all suck,imho.
But no I never tried that particular Rocktron. So when if/when you hook it up..Id like to know what you think. You seem to know TONS of data about tubes and gear..I would be surprized if the SS power amp would satisfy you.
GtrGeorge (all tube, all the time)

 

[cold Machine]

I would be interested if you actually LIKED the sound of a SS power amp when used with your Rm4.
I have tried quite a few and they all suck,imho.
But no I never tried that particular Rocktron. So when if/when you hook it up..Id like to know what you think. You seem to know TONS of data about tubes and gear..I would be surprized if the SS power amp would satisfy you.
GtrGeorge (all tube, all the time)

I've used a Rocktron Velocity 250 an RM4 along with a couple of other tube pre's and it sounded very good. Very fast attack but also had the SAG effect.

 

[George Jetson]

Julia, please keep us posted. I was all set to get the RT2/50 rack amp until the deal I had been working on went south due to a nervous seller. Now I am thinking outside of the box and may just expand my Axe-Fx w/ power amp rig to include the RM4.

Right now I have the darling of the FA Forum set, the ART-SLA2, which is an excellent low cost SS power amp, but too sterile to pair with a tube preamp. I'm thinking the Rocktron could split the difference for me. Reactance all the way off for the Axe-Fx, all the way on for the RM4.

 

[Julia]

Julia, please keep us posted. I was all set to get the RT2/50 rack amp until the deal I had been working on went south due to a nervous seller. Now I am thinking outside of the box and may just expand my Axe-Fx w/ power amp rig to include the RM4.

Right now I have the darling of the FA Forum set, the ART-SLA2, which is an excellent low cost SS power amp, but too sterile to pair with a tube preamp. I'm thinking the Rocktron could split the difference for me. Reactance all the way off for the Axe-Fx, all the way on for the RM4.

I will but it is going to be a while before I go down this road. We had a lot of rain and I now have the expense of paying someone to clear the blackberry jungle from the hillside behind the house. So I'm probably not going to be able to get any new gear until February (when I've finally finished paying off the J45). But things can always change.

For the studio I'm half tempted to go with the Eleven Rack and a nice pair of JBL 8" powered monitors and unload all my tube stuff, including my cabinets except for my combo amp. I can run the guitar through a tube mic preamp to warm up the signal. The stuff isn't going to be played live anyway. I use my Fender HR Deville for that at the moment.

NOTE: if I do the latter it has nothing to do with what I perceive as the quality of the Lynch Box, future availability of modules, or anything like that. I really like the sound of the LB. It's just too heavy for me to cart around live. And the Eleven rack is a four input interface as well, and has some multi-effects stuff built in, and can fully act as hardware plugins within my DAW, and recorded it sounds like a real amp -- check the new Foo Fighters Album the guitar work was done with Eleven Rack. Oh, and it's reactive. My situation is downsizing due to age.

 

[Rod]

Julia, if you're even thinking of the 11 rack, do yourself a big favor and check out the Axe FX.....Night and day...Remenber many recorded sounds from bands are highly manipulated in the studio...

 

[George Jetson]

I have a/b'd the ER with my Axe-FX Ultra and agree it is worth the extra coin to go with Fractal. I've never been a fan of the amp and efx emulations in ProTools, so I guess my ear is biased. The installed base of experts, forum support and hands-on involvement of the developers for Fractal make it a no-brainer for me. Don't expect Avid to be half as responsive to user's needs and complaints.