Salvation Phish or Hilligan Snorkeler

[Mike P]

I would be very interested in checking out the Salvation or Sacred Groove Fish mods. In-depth reviews and some clips would be greatly appreciated.....

I too have a real Fish and can confirm that I have yet to try an Egnater or Randall MTS module (stock or modded) that has the tonal complexity of the Fish. Not to mention, the Fish has the absolute lowest noise floor of any high gain preamp I have ever tried, and I have basically tried them all.....

This is not to knock modular at all, because I use it live and love it. But it is just a fact. In reality, it shouldn't come as a surprise that is difficult to cop the Fish's tone in a tiny module made up of 2 tubes.....

If I can get live tones from a $350 module that accurately reproduces the tone from my $3k Fish, I'll go that route and leave my Fish in storage.....

Looking forward to the roll out of Scott's (Sacred Groove's) Fish mod.....

While there are 8 tubes inside a Bogner Fish, only two tubes are dedicated to each of the four channels. So you're not hearing a culmination of eight tubes at once. It's the same as the Randall.

I've had the Sacred Groove Fish (Brown Channel) for about a week but I've only had less than an hour to spend with it due to my other obligations. I can tell you with absolute certainty that it nails the tone, gain and feel of the original Bogner Fish. It screams the AIC "Dirt" tone.

While Scott was working on the design, he sent progress files to me and I sent files to him that were recorded in 1992 with my original Bogner Fish. His files were dead-on tonewise to my tracks.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there were three different (and now four) incarnations of the Fish which include the very early Blackface, the Black Knob and the White Knob from the early 90's. All were slightly different. His latest is slightly different as well because all of the original parts weren't available for the latest run. So it's possible that Scott's version may not be exactly dead-on to your version but it's definitely "a" version of the Fish.

I should have time for clips in early April.

 

[rlord1974]

Hey Mike:

Thanks for the reply!

While I recognize that not all 8 tubes inside a Fish are used for each channel (I do believe V3 through V5 are used for the Brown channel, which makes the Brown channel 3 tubes, not 2), you can't blame me for being a little skeptical that a MTS module is going to get the EXACT same tone, feel and harmonic complexity as a $3k preamp. However, I would love to be able to decide using my ears, not a hunch.

I look forward to your clips (and some pics)! If this thing is as good as you say it is, I'll be contacting Scott right away to sign me up for one!

Cheers,

Rob

 

[sweetrock]

I also have an original Bogner Fish serial No:172 ,

I must say that Brown and shark channels use 4 gain stages which means totally 2 12ax7 tubes and strato uses 3 gain stages which means 1.5 tubes and clean uses 1 gain stage which means 0.5 tube .

Gain stages aren't only thing to judge for the quality tube preamp .

The most important thing is the design and fish , GP3 and Soldano preamps are the best peramps in the world with Cae3+ .

Best ,

Hakan

 

[crankyrayhanky]

skeptical that a MTS module is going to get the EXACT same tone, feel and harmonic complexity as a $3k preamp.

True, but do we need to be EXACT? True, the MTS power section remains the same, but I've heard plenty of modded modules that give tone that is equal to and surpasses the quality of 1-2k+ amps.

I would expect a FISH ballpark tone could be created, maybe even get so close that 99% people would never know (nor care) about the slight difference...differences that may be preferential as opposed to quality.

It'll be fun to hear the final result!

 

[rlord1974]

From Bogner website:



V3: 1st and 2nd stage for Brown channel, 12ax7

V4: 2nd stage Strato, 3rd Stage Brown, 12ax7

V5: 3rd stage Strato, 4th Stage Brown, 12ax7



http://www.bogneramplification.com/customshop/FishPreInfo.php

 

[Mike P]

Hey Mike:

Thanks for the reply!

While I recognize that not all 8 tubes inside a Fish are used for each channel (I do believe V3 through V5 are used for the Brown channel, which makes the Brown channel 3 tubes, not 2), you can't blame me for being a little skeptical that a MTS module is going to get the EXACT same tone, feel and harmonic complexity as a $3k preamp. However, I would love to be able to decide using my ears, not a hunch.

I look forward to your clips (and some pics)! If this thing is as good as you say it is, I'll be contacting Scott right away to sign me up for one!

Cheers,

Rob

Rob, keep in mind that there are additional gain stages available in the Randall head itself. You'd have to correspond with Scott because I am not an electrical engineer but I'm certain that the design has taken that into consideration.

 

[rlord1974]

True, but do we need to be EXACT?

I would expect a FISH ballpark tone could be created, maybe even get so close that 99% people would never know (nor care) about the slight difference.

It'll be fun to hear the final result!

Agree 100% Ray. As I stated earlier, I would be ecstatic to be able to get the tone from my Brown channel out of a module.

I am going to be watching the forum closely for Mike's clips and a formal announcement from Scott!

 

[Mike P]

True, but do we need to be EXACT?

Yes

 

[crankyrayhanky]

LOL

 

[eyeball987]

I would be very interested in checking out the Salvation or Sacred Groove Fish mods. In-depth reviews and some clips would be greatly appreciated.....

I too have a real Fish and can confirm that I have yet to try an Egnater or Randall MTS module (stock or modded) that has the tonal complexity of the Fish. Not to mention, the Fish has the absolute lowest noise floor of any high gain preamp I have ever tried, and I have basically tried them all.....

This is not to knock modular at all, because I use it live and love it. But it is just a fact. In reality, it shouldn't come as a surprise that is difficult to cop the Fish's tone in a tiny module made up of 2 tubes.....

If I can get live tones from a $350 module that accurately reproduces the tone from my $3k Fish, I'll go that route and leave my Fish in storage.....

Looking forward to the roll out of Scott's (Sacred Groove's) Fish mod.....

I can tell you with absolute certainty that it nails the tone, gain and feel of the original Bogner Fish. It screams the AIC "Dirt" tone.

I am looking for toward these clips.

 

[JKD]

True, but do we need to be EXACT?

I would expect a FISH ballpark tone could be created, maybe even get so close that 99% people would never know (nor care) about the slight difference.

It'll be fun to hear the final result!

Agree 100% Ray. As I stated earlier, I would be ecstatic to be able to get the tone from my Brown channel out of a module.

I am going to be watching the forum closely for Mike's clips and a formal announcement from Scott!

If you weren't so damned far away I'd lend you the Hilly XTC (AKA 'Snorkeler').... :-/

 

[rlord1974]

Come on Steve, its only 2,500 miles! A simple 38 hour drive!

LOL!

I'll pop by this weekend to pick it up......

 

[SacredGroove]

Hey Mike:

Thanks for the reply!

While I recognize that not all 8 tubes inside a Fish are used for each channel (I do believe V3 through V5 are used for the Brown channel, which makes the Brown channel 3 tubes, not 2), you can't blame me for being a little skeptical that a MTS module is going to get the EXACT same tone, feel and harmonic complexity as a $3k preamp. However, I would love to be able to decide using my ears, not a hunch.

I look forward to your clips (and some pics)! If this thing is as good as you say it is, I'll be contacting Scott right away to sign me up for one!

Cheers,

Rob

Rob, keep in mind that there are additional gain stages available in the Randall head itself. You'd have to correspond with Scott because I am not an electrical engineer but I'm certain that the design has taken that into consideration.

The Fish uses 4 tube stages, or 2 tubes worth of gain stages. In the case of the Randall, the first stage is the common input tube, inside the amp. The common tube uses one stage, and the module accounts for the other three. 8)