Boutique amp builder mods?

[rhequiem]

So, a friend of mine just got back from NAMM and was regaling me with some of the cool amps he got to see when he was there. It got me thinking... You hear so much good press about some of the boutique amp builders like Fortin, Cameron, Splawn, Friedman, etc - would it make any sense for any of our talented modders to develop a module around these amps (or certain channels therof), or are these amps essentially just different flavors of amps already out there now for which we already have module access to (Marshall, hot-rodded Marshall, etc)?

I haven't got to play any of these boutique amps personally, so I have no experience or frame of reference with which to say whether or not existing mods can match these or not, or whether or not it would be worth it to develop a module around any of these.

 

[disk11]

Friedman does MTS mods, I dunno what his username on here is though.

The issue with boutiques would probably be is there enough of a market for one to justify a modder doing the R and D to create the module. Maybe you could ask one of them if they would do a one-off.

 

[rhequiem]

I understand that Friedman does MTS mods, but I wasn't real sure how accurate they were to his Friedman amp line. I'm fairly certain, with his reputation and skill, Friedman is *crazy* busy with other stuff (like his amp line) to devote too much thought to the MTS line. I could be wrong, but it seems reasonable.

I've considered asking for a one-off, but that's where my inexperience with these particular amps comes into play. I probably wouldn't know the difference between a Splawn and a Cameron if I heard them in the same room hehe. As others probably do, I would have to trust the opinions and reviews of those who are/were fortunate enough to have owned some of these amps (and any corresponding MTS modules that might replicate them) and make my purchases based on that. I'd love to try out the actual amps from these builders, but I just don't have the kind of cash to be throwing around like that (sad face me hehe).

 

[Shinozoku]

MTS Modders shy away from the boutique stuff (Dumble and their new-car price tags notwithstanding) because builders like Scott Splawn have a market, and they don't have a LOT of people buying them. Therefore, making those circuits and tones available for a smaller price from a bigger company would risk too much stealing their business. With the modders being small businessmen themselves, they understand how other people stepping on their toes would feel, and would much rather avoid taking money out of their pockets.

 

[HughJasol]

With the modders being small businessmen themselves, they understand how other people stepping on their toes would feel, and would much rather avoid taking money out of their pockets.

Not to insinuate that modders have no conscience or morals, but I would tend to doubt that the modders haven't released such a module solely out of the kindness of their hearts. I would be more inclined to think that having to first acquire these amps, and their ~$4K price tags probably has more to do with it than anything . . .

 

[Jaded Faith]

In all honesty, a lot of the amps you mentioned are just a designers take on a classic circuit. We do a lot of innovative things in our products, but half of what you listed is a hot-rodded take on a Marshall, which is a spin-off of a Fender, etc.....

If you take the time to dial in a modded module, most of what you are asking about is in there to some degree, power section tuning withstanding.

 

[Jaded Faith]

I should also mention that I do the best I can to acquire an amp for actual study when designing a Replica Mod. Even if it's borrowed or something I own for a short time for R&D and benchmarking. There is a balance I have to strike as to whether it makes sense to go through that process for a product.

 

[BigBrewtus]

Very cool that you try to do a side by side when you can Rob. There does seem to be more ground to cover but like stated Splawn and the others are just tweaks of other originals. I am curious about a modding of the power section of my RM20. Seems that some amp have the magic there, i.e. Ubershall. Would you consider a task of this nature Rob?

 

[Jacksauce]

I've bugged Rob about Framus and Engl before. He makes some really great points. Most amplifiers come from another modded amplifier. And typically modders have to expect a Randall power amp unless it's a specific custom request.

 

[rhequiem]

Thanks for all of the input, guys. I understand that the amps I listed are essentially hot Marshall tones, but they seem to have their own flavor going on, and they are generally well-regarded (and expensive!). Hot Marshall tones are what I tend to prefer, but my question really applies to any of these boutique amps that can be difficult to find to play (and afford). I understand the Randall power section is going to affect things, of course, but was curious if that could be factored into the equation to match some of these difficult-to-afford amps

 

[Jaded Faith]

You will certainly see a few of these flavors this year from me and a lot of them can be found in existing products. Particularly ones like the XTC and 1959RR with so many switching options.

For whatever reason, I do notice the Randall power sections tend to be spoken on in a negative light on here quite a bit. In reality, they are actually quite good! I have a huge stable of amps in my studio and my RT 2/50 is probably my favorite power section. At least 4 of my amps cost 4 times what the RT 2/50 did. I have also owned an RM100 I upgraded the trannies on. The difference was there, but when benchmarking against a stock RM100 I owned at the time it was closer than you might think.

I may entertain some mods to the amps themselves this year, but for the time being I am committed to your modules and local amp service/repair. It's really just an issue of time available and I put in long days already.

 

[iekobrid]

for the time being I am committed to your modules and local amp service/repair.

Which Hamilton are you in: Mercer County or Atlantic? Maybe the next time I make the drive from MD to NY I'll drop off some dead MTS amps for you to take a look at.

 

[Mike P]

I understand that Friedman does MTS mods, but I wasn't real sure how accurate they were to his Friedman amp line. I'm fairly certain, with his reputation and skill, Friedman is *crazy* busy with other stuff (like his amp line) to devote too much thought to the MTS line. I could be wrong, but it seems reasonable.

That's an incorrect assumption.

Dave's Brown Eye and Hairy Brown Eye are extremely close to his Marsha amps, if not dead on. I've been to Dave's shop and played through his amps (and at an amp shootout a few years back in which Dave brought a Marsha) and owned both the BE and HBE. He even offers a few mods to the RM100 for a reasonable price to make it more like his amps.

Dave does phenomenal work but it often takes months for him to complete the mods because he's so busy. It took 13 weeks for my BE and nine weeks for my HBE, but both sounded awesome.

 

[Mike P]

Very cool that you try to do a side by side when you can Rob. There does seem to be more ground to cover but like stated Splawn and the others are just tweaks of other originals. I am curious about a modding of the power section of my RM20. Seems that some amp have the magic there, i.e. Ubershall. Would you consider a task of this nature Rob?

You could purchase Mercury Magnetics input and output transformers along with a choke that would greatly improve the sound of your RM20 but it would likely cost you more than $500 dollars installed and if you ever decided to sell it, you'd lose big bucks.

You're better off purchasing an RM100 because the transformers and power section and are quite good. Plus, you're never going to match the power section consisting of two EL84's to that of of a 100 watt EL34/6L6 amp.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

"In all honesty, a lot of the amps you mentioned are just a designers take on a classic circuit."

Jaded faith speaks the truth.

Its all very old designs going back to the RCA Tube catalog (printed in like 1935...). There has very little innovation since...although the MTS concept is arguable the best innovation since the 1960s.

GtrGeorge

 

[Jaded Faith]

for the time being I am committed to your modules and local amp service/repair.

Which Hamilton are you in: Mercer County or Atlantic? Maybe the next time I make the drive from MD to NY I'll drop off some dead MTS amps for you to take a look at.

Mercer county. The door is always open and I'd be happy to chat and look at your amps.

 

[rhequiem]

Which assumption - that Friedman's a busy dude? That was the only assumption I made, and you seemed to corroborate that The only other point I made was that I wasn't sure how accurate his MTS mods were to his actual Friedman amps (not an assumption, just a statement of ignorance on my part).

Regardless, thanks for the input on his mods, especially to the RM100. I'm in CA, so I might look at dropping an RM100 off to him for those mods, if I end up getting one (which I'm in the market for).

I understand that Friedman does MTS mods, but I wasn't real sure how accurate they were to his Friedman amp line. I'm fairly certain, with his reputation and skill, Friedman is *crazy* busy with other stuff (like his amp line) to devote too much thought to the MTS line. I could be wrong, but it seems reasonable.

That's an incorrect assumption.

Dave's Brown Eye and Hairy Brown Eye are extremely close to his Marsha amps, if not dead on. I've been to Dave's shop and played through his amps (and at an amp shootout a few years back in which Dave brought a Marsha) and owned both the BE and HBE. He even offers a few mods to the RM100 for a reasonable price to make it more like his amps. I tried out a HBE module of his on my first run with MTS, but it was very noisy and hard to control, feedback-wise, so I ended up selling it off. I'd like to try another one to see if it was my experience with tube setups (which I still have in abundance hehe)

Dave does phenomenal work but it often takes months for him to complete the mods because he's so busy. It took 13 weeks for my BE and nine weeks for my HBE, but both sounded awesome.

 

[Deisel401]

BigBrewtus wrote:
Very cool that you try to do a side by side when you can Rob. There does seem to be more ground to cover but like stated Splawn and the others are just tweaks of other originals. I am curious about a modding of the power section of my RM20. Seems that some amp have the magic there, i.e. Ubershall. Would you consider a task of this nature Rob?


You could purchase Mercury Magnetics input and output transformers along with a choke that would greatly improve the sound of your RM20 but it would likely cost you more than $500 dollars installed and if you ever decided to sell it, you'd lose big bucks.

You're better off purchasing an RM100 because the transformers and power section and are quite good. Plus, you're never going to match the power section consisting of two EL84's to that of of a 100 watt EL34/6L6 amp. I've been wondering about an upgrade to my RM20 power section also. Sacred Groove gave me an opinion about this very subject and pretty much said the same thing as posted above. I'd like to get an RM50. But I just wish it had the same DI recording output as the RM20. I'd have to sell my RM20 to get cash to put towards an RM50 cuz I def can't afford a second amp right now. But I see all the retailers are dropping prices a bit to eliminate inventory before April 4th. Hope the price of an RM50 drops to my affordability. So to upgrade the RM20 output section we can pretty much search out the best tubes, right? And from what I've read that would be TAD tubes?

 

[Jaded Faith]

IMHO I would go for one of the larger Octal-based amps. The RM20 will never give you what an RM50 or RM100 can. EL84's are great tubes but a pair running 20 watts will leave your desiring a bit more regardless of what you do with the tranny's.

Hope that helps,
Rob

 

[Mattfig]

regardless of what you do with the tranny's.

Hope that helps,
Rob

You should leave the poor guy's personal life out of this...

Sorry, couldn't resist... 8)