New Clips: Salvation Stonerverb, SG MK22, SG Fisch!

[SALVAGED]

The white chickenheads rock!

Heck yeah!! It TOTALLY looks & sounds like a Bogner product now. I'm extremely happy with this module...

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

His tone on the last Lynch Mod record, IMO, was his worst over the years. I don't know what he was using, but it was very undefined and fairly toneless. Nothing like the Wicked Sensation record, which were his best recorded tones IMO.

THIS. We agree for once as we seem to disagree from time to time on here :lol: I think George really doesn't know what he likes anymore. Constantly thinking there is something better... i guess we are all like that too but nobody really cares about our tone!

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

For MikeP who insists the SG Phish preamp MTS module lives up to the real deal, does it sound as raw and dry as this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noNVtzLilds. Now it's on! The brown channel on this demo sounds killer... will be interesting to see if someone with good vid/audio setup (hint hint) can turn out something similar..

 

[SALVAGED]

For MikeP who insists the SG Phish preamp MTS module lives up to the real deal, does it sound as raw and dry as this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noNVtzLilds. Now it's on! The brown channel on this demo sounds killer... will be interesting to see if someone with good vid/audio setup (hint hint) can turn out something similar..

I'm not MikeP... but I certainly think the SG Fisch sounds like the link... I'm VERY happy with the module.

 

[Mike P]

For MikeP who insists the SG Phish preamp MTS module lives up to the real deal, does it sound as raw and dry as this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noNVtzLilds. Now it's on! The brown channel on this demo sounds killer... will be interesting to see if someone with good vid/audio setup (hint hint) can turn out something similar..

Here's a couple of tracks with Phish Brown channel. It sounds exactly how a properly mic'd Bogner Fish should sound.

www.mikeplas.com/mlib/mr/racetheman.mp3

www.mikeplas.com/mlib/mr/figuredout.mp3

Both of those clips feature my '93 Les Paul Premium Plus top with a Burstbucker Pro, so they don't have the "edge" of a Floyd Rose/Strat body with a Duncan JB. But rest assured, it sounds exactly like a Fish.



PS - I tried to get Bogner to re-issue the Fish back in 2002 and pleaded with Sean to convince him. They told me they couldn't just build one, they had to build multiples because of the steel chassis. I even offered to put up $10k but was refuted.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

It might be your zillion dollar studio and equipment but that thing sounds HUGE. Props to Scott on that one.

How do you mic your guitar cabs and what size of cab do you use?

 

[Mike P]

It might be your zillion dollar studio and equipment but that thing sounds HUGE. Props to Scott on that one.

How do you mic your guitar cabs and what size of cab do you use?

It's the same signal chain I use for every recording I've posted:

Guitar>Randall RM100>Module>Bogner Cube (1x12) w/Celestion Classic Lead 80>Mojave 201>Vintech 273>Apogee Rosetta 800 clocked to a DA16x>Nuendo.

No EQ pre or post. Just the sound of the guitar and amp.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

That's a 1 x 12?? ****... I have been looking at a solution to crank an amp and i was thinking about building an iso cab for a 1 x 12. Looks like good results are possible. Also surprised in the choice to use a classic 80. In most cases V30's seem to be the go to's for recording. Sounds great. I guess it doesn't hurt that you have about 4K in the mic and mic pre + converter! :lol: I have a presonus and sm57's.. i'm thinking results can very significantly!

 

[Mike P]

That's a 1 x 12?? ****... I have been looking at a solution to crank an amp and i was thinking about building an iso cab for a 1 x 12. Looks like good results are possible.

I'm not a fan of an iso cab. You'd be better off installing treatment in a closet to reduce the volume. I've never owned or heard an iso cab that didn't sound boxy.

Also surprised in the choice to use a classic 80. In most cases V30's seem to be the go to's for recording.

I've been recording Classic Lead 80's since the early 90's. Nothing else has come even close to the recorded tone with the Bogner Cube and I've tried Greenbacks, Scumback M65, Eminence Private Jack, Vintage 30 and more.

IMO, the Vintage 30 is just about the worst sounding Celestion speaker ever made, especially the Chinese made version. The Eminence Private Jack is way better sounding to my ears and the Scumback blows them both away. The problem is that they don't record well with the Cube, due to its design. Every speaker I've tried outside the CL80 has recorded boxy, compressed and buzzy.

I guess it doesn't hurt that you have about 4K in the mic and mic pre + converter!

Nah, not really. The sound coming out of the cab is the sound that's recorded. I've made recording with ADAT's and even 4 track cassettes in which the guitar tone sounded very, very good. It's all in WHAT you record and less about the gear and medium.

That said, I've found the current combination to yield the best results I've had in my studio to date.

I have a presonus and sm57's.. i'm thinking results can very significantly!

That should be just fine. It's about the tone coming out of the cabinet and where you place the mic or mics, more than the gear. In your case, I'd use two 57's on a speaker and experiment with them side by side and with one at a 45 degree angle to the other. You should be able to make a fine recording, as long as the guitar, strings, pickups, amp, speaker and cabinet sound awesome.

The recording is the easy part.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Thanks for the tips.. I actually have a closet under the stairs in my basement studio that I just cleaned out. I was thinking some DIY acoustic paneling on the door and ceiling in addition to a moving blanket wrapping around the walls inside the closet and a 1 x 12 should do the trick for tracking louder with less noise in the room I'm actually monitoring in. (it's a one room studio type of space where I also have my drums)

I'll consider the classic 80. I personally hate v30's in any cab in front of me but have found that they sound right when recorded and that is why I mentioned them. My goal for the rest of this year is to finish up the studio and be able to get some decent sounds on tape.

 

[Mike P]

Thanks for the tips.. I actually have a closet under the stairs in my basement studio that I just cleaned out. I was thinking some DIY acoustic paneling on the door and ceiling in addition to a moving blanket wrapping around the walls inside the closet and a 1 x 12 should do the trick for tracking louder with less noise in the room I'm actually monitoring in. (it's a one room studio type of space where I also have my drums)

I'll consider the classic 80. I personally hate v30's in any cab in front of me but have found that they sound right when recorded and that is why I mentioned them. My goal for the rest of this year is to finish up the studio and be able to get some decent sounds on tape.

http://www.markertek.com/Acoustic-Materials/Acoustic-Foam/TOWER-1A.xhtml?MF-3

I'd advise purchasing as many 54x54 inch panels as you need and place your cabinet on a carpet facing the foam. I run my master volume on 3 on every track to get my tones and in a closet, it's not very audible, nor does it bother anyone.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

That's a good idea.. I will try and source some of that acoustic foam locally or in Canada at least and do something similar because the space I have in mind would be perfect.

I just messed around with my sm57 for half an hour and it just ain't cutting it for me. Is it my imagination or are they very splatty mics? Everything seems so raw and ugly and splatty. I've gotten decent tones in the past but hezus, this is plain bad. I might need to combine two as you suggested. Anyway that's a diff topic, sorry for hijacking.

 

[Daryl]

Thanks for the tips.. I actually have a closet under the stairs in my basement studio that I just cleaned out. I was thinking some DIY acoustic paneling on the door and ceiling in addition to a moving blanket wrapping around the walls inside the closet and a 1 x 12 should do the trick for tracking louder with less noise in the room I'm actually monitoring in. (it's a one room studio type of space where I also have my drums)

I'll consider the classic 80. I personally hate v30's in any cab in front of me but have found that they sound right when recorded and that is why I mentioned them. My goal for the rest of this year is to finish up the studio and be able to get some decent sounds on tape.

http://www.markertek.com/Acoustic-Materials/Acoustic-Foam/TOWER-1A.xhtml?MF-3

I'd advise purchasing as many 54x54 inch panels as you need and place your cabinet on a carpet facing the foam. I run my master volume on 3 on every track to get my tones and in a closet, it's not very audible, nor does it bother anyone.

Nice. Do you have the mic set in the center of the speaker cone or is it slightly off axis? I can't tell entirely from the photos because of the angle. Does it even matter that much where you position the mic? (Within reason of course)

 

[Whoopysnorp]

When miking guitar amps, my experience is that pretty much every fraction of an inch you move the microphone in any direction makes for substantial changes in the recorded tone. This doesn't mean that the sweet spot is impossibly small to hit; you will probably find a fair amount of usable area that gets you a good tone, but this does make it next to impossible to place a mic in such a way as to perfectly match an existing recording, even given the exact same recording chain and guitar rig. IMO anyway.

 

[Mike P]

Nice. Do you have the mic set in the center of the speaker cone or is it slightly off axis? I can't tell entirely from the photos because of the angle. Does it even matter that much where you position the mic? (Within reason of course)

The mic is on axis and it's set about 2/3 to the left side of the cab. With this setting, it catches just a hair of the dust cap, where the speaker is at its brightest, but lots of the cone, where the body and mids are concentrated.

And yes, as Whoopysnorp stated, placement makes a gigantic difference. A quarter inch up, down, left or right makes a big difference in overall tone. It could be buzzier, brighter, darker or have more midrange, depending on which way it's moved. That effect is greatly exaggerated with a small diaphragm mic such as a '57, i5, PR20, etc.

The Mojave 201 FET is a large diaphragm condenser mic (1") and it took a while to find the sweet spot. But once I did, it hasn't been moved in more than a year. I take measurements as well so if anything were to happen, I could place it exactly in the same spot. The tape measure is your friend.

 

[Daryl]

Nice. Do you have the mic set in the center of the speaker cone or is it slightly off axis? I can't tell entirely from the photos because of the angle. Does it even matter that much where you position the mic? (Within reason of course)

The mic is on axis and it's set about 2/3 to the left side of the cab. With this setting, it catches just a hair of the dust cap, where the speaker is at its brightest, but lots of the cone, where the body and mids are concentrated.

And yes, as Whoopysnorp stated, placement makes a gigantic difference. A quarter inch up, down, left or right makes a big difference in overall tone. It could be buzzier, brighter, darker or have more midrange, depending on which way it's moved. That effect is greatly exaggerated with a small diaphragm mic such as a '57, i5, PR20, etc.

The Mojave 201 FET is a large diaphragm condenser mic (1") and it took a while to find the sweet spot. But once I did, it hasn't been moved in more than a year. I take measurements as well so if anything were to happen, I could place it exactly in the same spot. The tape measure is your friend.

Thanks Mike and Whoopysnorp... There are so many subtleties to achieving great tone. BTW. Thanks for the link to the studio foam. Those are some great prices.

 

[alowerdeep]

Im with you on that ...not a fan of Vintage 30's at all...dont like how they break up or Color tone...I know that is where alot of the love comes from with them..Hated my jcm800 though them....I like speakers that capture the truest essesnce of the tone of the amp and v30's dont seem to do that in my experience....

 

[Mike P]

Im with you on that ...not a fan of Vintage 30's at all...dont like how they break up or Color tone...I know that is where alot of the love comes from with them..Hated my jcm800 though them....I like speakers that capture the truest essesnce of the tone of the amp and v30's dont seem to do that in my experience....

The early Vintage 30's that were released in the 90's were very good. They blew away the 75 watt Celestion that was standard in most Marshall 4x12's and sounded pretty awesome coupled with the 30th Anniversary Marshall head. But once production was moved to China, they began to sound like crap, all "Ice-pick" and bright.

For that pre-Rolla sound, nothing, IMO, beats the Scumback speakers, although they're very expensive. The Eminence Private Jack is closer to a pre-Rolla Greenback (without the harsh high end) than a V30.

 

[m0jo]

Im with you on that ...not a fan of Vintage 30's at all...dont like how they break up or Color tone...I know that is where alot of the love comes from with them..Hated my jcm800 though them....I like speakers that capture the truest essesnce of the tone of the amp and v30's dont seem to do that in my experience....

The early Vintage 30's that were released in the 90's were very good. They blew away the 75 watt Celestion that was standard in most Marshall 4x12's and sounded pretty awesome coupled with the 30th Anniversary Marshall head. But once production was moved to China, they began to sound like crap, all "Ice-pick" and bright.

For that pre-Rolla sound, nothing, IMO, beats the Scumback speakers, although they're very expensive. The Eminence Private Jack is closer to a pre-Rolla Greenback (without the harsh high end) than a V30.

Have you tried Eminence Wizards or Governors?

I have 2 Governors in an upright 2x12 .. they rock
But I'm thinking of adding a Wizard for a bit more fatness and harmonics.

 

[Mike P]

Have you tried Eminence Wizards or Governors?

I have 2 Governors in an upright 2x12 .. they rock
But I'm thinking of adding a Wizard for a bit more fatness and harmonics.

I haven't tried those speakers. It's been a decade since I've owned a 4x12 cab and at the time, I had two 80 watt Celestions and two re-issue Greenbacks from the early 90's.

Since then, I've tried the V30's, CL80, Scumback M75, Private Jack, Jensen PQ75 (I think?) and so many more. The Bogner Cube is a great sounding cabinet but for recording, the only speaker that hasn't sounded "boxy" when recorded is the CL80, so I gave up a few years ago on trying to"improve" the sound of the speaker and began trying high end mics.

Speakers are definitely cheaper.